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Don't Ask, Don't Tell--Gays in the Military

The photograph of Paul Tibbets with his ground crew in front of the Enola Gay is reproduced from Vincent C. Jones, Manhattan: The Army and the Atomic Bomb, United States Army in World War II (Washington: Center of Military History, United States Army, 1988), 535.Allowing homosexuals and bisexuals in the United States military is being examined by Congress for the first time in 15 years.

When Bill Clinton became U.S. president about 16 years ago, one of the first things he wanted to do was to stop the military from discriminating against bisexuals, gays and lesbians.  Under policy at that time, the Pentagon could and did ask recruits their sexual orientation.  This was due to what would now be called homophobia--people were afraid that gays would proposition, sexually molest or even rape them.  (Two or three decades ago, many Americans believed that most sexual molesters were homosexual).

Congress wouldn't go along with Clinton's proposal, but instead made a compromise.  This became known as the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy.  If you were lesbian, bisexual or gay, you were supposed to keep your mouth shut about it.  In turn, the Pentagon wouldn't ask you what genitalia you preferred.

It was an odd policy to begin with--it was against the rules for you to have a "non-normal" sexual preference, but it was OK as long as no one found out about it.  Something of an "It's OK as long as you don't get caught" policy.

But the military establishment caught people anyway.  While the Pentagon stopped asking directly, they still investigated.  The number of people kicked out due to their sexual orientation only lessened by about 10 percent, according to Randy Shilts' 1993 book Conduct Unbecoming: Gays & Lesbians in the U.S. Military.

But Congress is now holding a hearing on the policy with what is ironic timing.  Senator Sam Nunn, who was a co-creator of the policy, is being seriously considered as the vice presidential running mate for Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, who’s had a lot of support from homosexuals.

So what think?  What affect could having Nunn as a running mate have on Obama's campaign?  And should the military be allowed to keep people out due to their sexual orientation?  Is a policy that makes those who want to serve in the military hide their homosexuality or bisexuality fair?

(Alden Loveshade contributed to this)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080723/us_time/revisitingdontaskdonttell

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What's the government doing in our pants anyway? We don't want them there! Unless of course they're cute.

Even though I am a former amateur military enthusiast, I am by no means an expert, but there are two confirmed historical examples of ferocious warriors who practiced "degenerate" sexual behavior: the Classical Greeks and the Samaurai of feudal Japan.

Plus we have two rumored examples of highly skilled fighting men who may have preferred young boys to women: Richard the Lionheart and Baron Friedrich von Steuben.

von Steuben is the Prussian officer who drilled the Continental Army at Valley Forge in the European method of warfare and in the summer after, the Patriots finally brought a British army to a dead stop and then retreat at Monmouth Court House.

If he really was a gay pedophile, how can you reconcile that with the fact that he was the man who gave us the army that gave us our independence?

Homosexuality is an abomination before God! It is forbidden by the Bible. The Bible says a man who lies with a man shall be put to death.

And that Russian had nothing to do with the American Revolution. Have you forgotten that the United States was at war with Russia? They are Communist, an anti-Christian political religion. They say they aren't Communist anymore, but they are.

But they can repent. And you can too. Ask God for forgiveness, and you can have eternal life.

John 3:16

I'm not even going to try to argue with your theology. That's a fight I would never win.

But your history is badly flawed. (Easily remedied by going to your local library.)

von Steuben most certainly did take part in the Revolution.
Just read the writings of Ben Franklin and George Washington, men who were actually there.

Also, look at the name: von Steuben. That's not a Russian name; it's German.

I said he was from PRUSSIA, not RUSSIA.

Prussia was a German kingdom (that later would be part of East Germany) and that a century after the American Revolution would conquer and unite all the other German kingdoms with its spike-helmeted soldaten.

It was founded in the middle ages by the Teutonic Knights, a Christian military order like the Templars and Hospitallers that fought in the Crusades, plus they also waged the Northern Crusade against the pagans of Eastern Europe.

Plus, I said that von Steuben's practices, to this day, are merely rumors.

But if they are true, then a German "degenerate" made us, to paraphrase your own words, the "world's only Christian nation."


As for Russia, it didn't even enter the picture for us until after 1917.

I also echo Julie's query on the "YouTube" entry.

Who you want to sleep with has nothing to do with how well you can fight. Wasn't Ghengis Khan and his men into bestiality? Why else would they ride around on My Little Ponies?

How many guys in that pic are gay? I like gays in the military. Fill it with gays, do it! Leaves more of the women to us heteros! Forget revelry let's have Bootie call!

Rev. Bootie, I strongly suspect you're being facetious, but I like what you write, so I'll give you a little backup.

To those of you who have griped about me in the past, yes, you can look this up in a book if you feel that I write too much and don't take into account you having jobs, school, families, etc.

You say "Forget revelry" when the actual term is a mind-twister spelled "Reveille" and is often pronounced "rev-il-ee."
It's a bugle call that means "wake up" in French, and is typically played at sunrise, however, depending on your nation and service branch, it will pronounced differently and played at different times in the morning.
In the evening, many nations and services play "Taps." (It's not just for funerals.)

As for the B-29 crew in the pic, I'm pretty sure none of them were gay. The plane's name came courtesy of the pipe-smoking man in the center, then-Colonel Paul W. Tibbets, Jr., CO of the 509th Composite Group.
Unlike other groups that were just one type of plane or other (i.e. fighter or bomber groups), a composite group would be a mixture of types, like bombers and transports.

Col. ((later Brig. Gen.) Tibbets named the plane after his mother, Enola Gay Tibbets. ("Enola" is "Alone" backwards. I have no idea why she was named that.)

The plane dropped "Little Boy" on Hiroshima and then days later, a "Fat Man" device was dropped on Nagasaki by a plane called "Bockscar", named after its pilot, Capt. Frederick C. Bock.
Nagasaki suffered less than Hiroshima because of surrounding mountains and both cities suffered less actual destruction than the fire-bombing of Tokyo.

But, it was the equation of one plane, one bomb, and one city that the Allies had been frantically working on to replace the raids of up to 1000 bombers and 800 fighters for just one raid, and in spite of its controversy (especially over the radiation issue [my grandfather was a physician on the Manhattan Project who researched radiation on people-including taking a full dose of it to his own head]), it worked.

General Tibbets died last year, but his grandson, Lt. Col. Paul W. Tibbets IV, is CO of the 393rd Bomber Squadron of the 509th Bomber Wing-the reactivated 509th his grandfather commanded- flying B-2 Spirit stealth bombers.

Here's some utterly useless trivia that has absolutely no bearing with this discussion.

Plus, for those who like to venomously critique my writing, steer clear of this post, cuz I'm gonna do it again.

The article posted above is about homosexual men and women, respectively called gays and lesbians.

But ages ago and for a long time gay simply meant being happy.

And Lesbians were, and still are, residents of the Greek island of Lesbos.

It's supposed to be the home of the female poet Sappho, who wrote of love between women, but it appears she was very happy in her very heterosexual marriage.
Yet today we describe lesbian affairs as being sapphic.

But it's another time period that I find intriguing.

During the Great War, The War to End All Wars, World War One, the word "gay" was used freely and without hesitation by people everywhere.

In fact if you read some of the letters of soldiers, sailors, and airmen of that conflict, the writing is downright effeminate.

Obviously, there was also a lot of very coarse and belligerent writing, too.

But the probably the most well-known use of "gay" was used to describe the fliers of both sides but especially certain Germans.

There's a popular image of German fighters decked out in gaudy paint jobs with both Allied (or Entente) and Central Powers pilots both describing them as "gaily painted."
Add to the fact that the Germans organized their air units into mobile organizations that could be quickly redeployed and used huge tents, and we have the origin of the term "Flying Circus."

But there was really only one Flying Circus that completely fit that description; Jagdgeschwader 1 (JG 1-Fighter Wing 1, or more specifcally, Hunting Wing 1.)

Most German fliers actually flew planes that had either factory-applied camouflage or no paint at all.

But JG 1 was the wing commanded by Rittmeister Manfred Albrecht freiherr von Richthofen.
The English version of that name, rank and title is Cavalry Captain Manfred Albrecht Baron von Richthofen; the Red Baron, who, from either late 1916 or early '17 unto April 21, 1918, flew about five different types of plane painted partially or completely red.

I had read a translation of his autobiography and he himself asked why he chose red and he responded that he really didn't know why.
He thought that maybe camo was useless.

Some have speculated that being attacked by a red plane would cause an enemy to panic as well as know who shot him down but statistics have shown that over 90% of all airmen shot down never saw the plane that got them.
That rule still holds today.
And there were other pilots who flew the same types of planes, painted them red and served on other fronts.

But back to the gay stuff, he wrote effeminately just like I mentioned above and he used "gay" and "gaily" liberally throughout his book.
Allied pilots did the same.

But I would dare not question the manhood of a pilot who described himself as being gay and yet blasted 1 Belgian and 79 British planes out of the sky between the fall of 1916 and April 20, 1918.

And the next day, he was tough enough to survive a horrendous bullet wound that tore through his heart and yet bring his plane to a perfect landing near Australian AA gunners and live long enough for them to reach him and hear him say his last word; "kaput" ("finished.")

In recent decades, the word "gay" was still being used in its original meaning: happy.
Sam Cooke's "Twistin' the Night Away" and the musical "West Side Story" used it.

Monty Python's Flying Circus had fun with the "gay" WW 1 pilots in their Biggles parody sketch-which was ironic because the late Graham Chapman played the lead and was out to eliminate "gay" or "poof" pilots in his squadron when in fact Chapman himself was homosexual in real life(they also mocked the "banter" of RAF pilots of WW 2 in another sketch.)
(Sorry about that. I couldn't find the right words to fit into that last paragraph and as a result, even I'm confused by it.)

But let me leave you with this parting thought on the "gay" and "effeminate" fighter pilots of the Great War.

The British called the Germans Huns (leading to the expression "Beware of the Hun in the sun"-that is, keep watching for enemy planes that might between you and the blinding sun.)

So this is a British song from this war which I think is titled "The Dying Airman."
I may also have the lyrics wrong.

The young aviator went Hun-hunting
Now, 'neath the wreckage he lay
And to the mechanics there gathered 'round him
This is what they heard him say,
"Take the cylinders out of my kidneys,
The connecting rod out of my brain,
And from the small of my back, take the camshaft,
And assemble the engine again."

Yeah, I like dark humor. And nothing's darker than military humor.

Would you rather make love to a straight guy or a queer guy? That shows your own preference not theirs.

But would you rather be shot dead by a military straight guy or a queer guy? Am I seeing no difference here?

I don't think Barack will have anybody as a running mate but Hillary! The first black president and first woman vice president. I believe that would be good for America. Much better than what we've had!

Making people hide their sexual preference is wrong. People should be free to make love to anybody they want!

Excellent point, Vicki.
I seem to recall hearing that sexual orientation-or even gender-wasn't even a consideration until very recently.
It seems it was simply a non-issue in most cultures for thousands of years.

And a gay man can kill just as effectively as a straight man.
And it's thought that women can do some kinds of fighting better than men.

It was, at one time, thought that women threw hand grenades better than men.
TawTew, as for women participating alongside men, during the Great Patriotic War, the Soviet/Russian name for WW 2, there were three all-female air regiments; one night harrasment rgt., one bomber rgt., and one fighter rgt.
The Soviet Union is the only nation to have women aces.
Women, and small men, are thought to handle high-g loads better, which is why the first cosmonauts were short and one was a woman.

As to be free to make love to whomever you want, what was it that Stephen Stills (is that the correct spelling?)sang? "Love the One You're With."

Make Love, Not War!

(Yeah, that's right. You actually heard that from ME.)

We have the anniversary of what the Enola Gay did, drop Little Boy on Japan. Maybe all the men who did it are gone now. That's been 63 years. But maybe not. I bet they thought about every day for a long time.

Why celebrate dropping a bomb?

This isn't about dropping a bomb. It's about dropping your shorts. Of course that could be a bomb.

Andy's right. Nothing anybody says can change that. Homosexuality is WRONG! We don't need that kind of people in the military or anywhere else!

Alexander the Great was gay and look what he did; conquered the world. Maybe we should let Gays in the military.

Vern, I didnt know Alexander the Great was gay. I guess Americans would think he couldn't fight! lol

Homosexuality is not wrong. I'm Wiccan and I believe if it harms none, do as you will. Rape is wrong, but all consensual sex is fine. And gays and lesbians can't help it if they were born that way!

And if you don't like it you might meet an Alexander who'll kick your ass! lol j/k

Nunn will not be veep.

In 2012 we'll have a homosexual president. Or a lesbian. And they'll nuke the world. The Mayans said so.

So what happened with this? Did they decide anything? Or will they debate about it for 40 years?

Keep American spies out of our bedrooms!

Stupid is as stupid does. Military intelligence is an oxymoron.

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